Saki and Chinami talk about a note of discord once played in Berryz Kobo

(HPW note: This interview with Shimizu Saki and Tokunaga Chinami from Berryz Kobo is from the book RIVAL: The Story of 12 girls Over a Decade published on 15 July 2012.)

-- There're some people performing under the spotlight, while some others are supporting them off the light. I suppose you two have been expected to play kind of supporting roles.

Shimizu: From the height of happiness where I'd got picked up for ZYX, I was dropped into the depth of misery when I found myself standing in a rear position of Berryz. At first I thought it wouldn't be long before I get another position. But it continued, and I was wondering all the time how long that situation would last and what I could do to change it. I kind of knew that Chinami was also feeling the same way, being frustrated with how we'd been treated. One day she had a quarrel with one of our managers, and I realized what she'd really been thinking.

-- What was the quarrel over?

Tokunaga: After they'd finished recording our vocal parts for a single Otakebi Boy WAO!, Tsunku-san requested re-recording our songs one more time in order to make the single with much more punch. And I was also told that Tsunku-san's not gonna attend the recording sessions with Captain, Maasa and I, because only our schedules didn't match his. I just couldn't accept the reason, and couldn't help wondering "Why? I do my best at every recording session. How could I do it better without Tsunku-san's direction?" I knew schedules can't work together sometimes, still it felt like Tsunku-san regarding us unnecessary to me. I got so emotional that I complained to the manager. He tried to persuade me "If you gave up now, you'd be doomed", but I wasn't convinced with his explanation at all.

-- You hadn't been conscious of your own role in the group much until then?

Tokunaga: I'd been thinking like "If I'm having fun, that's good enough", or trying to be realistic like "Those who can enjoy their lives win". But I realized I couldn't enjoy anything with that situation. I could tell they're pouring much effort into the new single, since re-recording had never been done until that time. So it made me more suspicious to wonder "Why?" Soon after the re-recording, we saw the New Year in. I was still irritated at it and didn't send a New Year's greetings to the manager alone. (laughing)

-- How did you make up that awkward situation?.

Tokunaga: I consulted Niigaki Risa-san when we happened to be in a same dressing room. She sympathized with me saying "Yeah, That kind of things can happen" and suggested "Why don't we have the manager here to talk over it now?" Then she brought the manager in to make us a chance to talk it out. Though, she soon left the room as we'd talked for only a couple of minutes. So, I and the manager alone had to get on with the issue all over again.

-- Niigaki-san was being really mature, wasn't she?

Tokunaga: Yes, she was as expected.

Shimizu: As I'm a kind of person who tends to keep negative feelings pent up in my heart, I took advantage of Chinami's blowup to release them. Since I had been told that effort never goes unrewarded, I'd been doing my best effort in dead earnest all the time. But it didn't get paid. We both usually get our own solo lines in the latter half of songs which is not gonna be performed in TV shows. So it ends up that we never have solo singing in TV appearances. I know line distributions are not designed only for performing on TV, but are well-elaborated for balancing entire pieces of music. But, as it went on and on, the frustration inside my heart had been built up to the extreme, wondering "Something absurd has kept going on. How long would I have to play a supporting role?" Eventually it collapsed down when I was told about the re-recording for Otakebi Boy-.

-- So you realized that the situation wouldn't change no matter how much effort you make. How did you deal with that reality?

Shimizu: Just like what Chinami has said, I thought making myself able to enjoy the reality might be the best solution, and the rear-positions would have their own attractions and there might be some people who wouldn't fit in those positions. If I was given a rear position I'd like to enjoy it, I thought. If my efforts didn't get paid, still I'd be happy enough to have some fans who would kindly say they'll always be watching me whatever position I stand in. Also I realized it's really encouraging to have some members who suffer from the same situation and I could keep going on together with them.

-- If you were to keep being in Berryz for another decade, what roles would you expect yourselves to play and what would you want to be like?

Shimizu: I'd like to be a foundation of the group. Even if I couldn't be on its top, I'd be happy to bear it as the foundation. There're some members who stand out and some other members who don't, still I'd like to help all of them to bring their own unique goodness out. Actually I feel comfortable with my present position in Berryz Kobo, and am even able to be thanksful to have only a single line in a song. I'd like to keep this mentality and try not to take the situation for granted.

Tokunaga: Ditto. (laughing) And I think I need to find out something I'm good at and polish it up. Though, it also makes me wonder why I couldn't have discovered anything in the past 10 years. (laughing) Since I haven't found out anything I'm good at among the things I've been given, I'd like to try more different things from now on.

-- Do you have something in your mind that you wanna try?

Tokunaga: I'd like to learn English. Since we visited Seattle last year, I've been wishing for more activities overseas and meeting people around the world to introduce Berryz Kobo. None of the Berryz Kobo members can speak English for now, so I wanna be the one.

Shimizu: Chinami is so open-minded that people overseas like her.

Tokunaga: Yes, they do. (laughing) When we visited Hawaii, many people talked to me.

-- So you're gonna be in charge of international affairs, OK? (laughing) By the way, I've heard that Chinami-chan has become more understanding after that re-recording thing. Is it correct?

Tokunaga: Yes. I've somehow come to think "anything goes" these days.

-- You mean you've quit sticking to things in a good way?

Tokunaga: I used to tend to compare myself with others over anything like "Why is she allowed to do that while I'm not?" Actually I've had a couple of quarrels in business and even sent some emails "I'll break away" to my manager late at night. (laughing) One of the problems was about whether to accept an outfit exposing belly or not. They tried to convince me telling "We need both members who show their bellies and who don't just to get the right balance in the group." Still I couldn't stop wondering "Why always me to expose belly?" (laughing)

-- How did you solve the problem?

Tokunaga: As we've grown up, we have less opportunities to expose our bellies these days. And I've become to think I need to quit sticking to trivial things. Like "I'm OK if it's the thing I can do." I might complain too much, while Captain tends to keep various frustrations pent up. Probably because she's smarter than I, she can mind and worry of much more things. I think she should clean out her closet more often.

-- Do you actually counsel her?

Tokunaga: Never. Do you think I was capable of giving her any appropriate advice? (laughing)

Shimizu: Chinami is super positive about everything. We had some opportunities to have our fans to consult us over their private worries, and Chinami would always give them solutions of very positive thinking. I'd always impressed by how she comes up with those ideas that I'd never think of. For example, a fan's worry was that he hated cold morning --, do you remember what it was like?

Tokunaga: He was so sensitive to the cold that he couldn't get out of his bed in every morning. My advice to him was "You'd better sleep dressed in a coat, then you wouldn't hesitate to get out of your bed" or something.

-- I see. He must have realized how foolish of him worrying over that trifle. You think so far outside the box. (laughing)

Shimizu: Yet, as you unexpected, Chinami is kinda serious person in fact. Although she always finishes things randomly and moves on quickly, she would reflect upon herself alone when she gets off work, I guess.

-- I got it. I suppose you guys must have come through the decade struggling to find out answers for your own worries. How would you like to live your lives from now on?

Shimizu: I've been working throughout the most precious period of my youth, got over various difficulties and now I suppose I've become more capable of dealing with various things than ordinary people of my age. I think it's something hard to get. I'd like to keep going on embracing memories of the past hardships, not leaving them behind, and build something new on them. I don't wanna stand still. I want to experience and understand various things little by little, day by day. Then I want everyone to approve us as a group and as each individuals as well, not only by how we look but also by what we've got.

Tokunaga: Well said, Captain! I'm feeling like you've said everything I wanted to say. Ditto. (laughing)

(HPW note: How could I blame Chinami for her infinite hiatus in learning English while I've been so lazy in updating the site. By the way, now, 3 yrs later, these two have become the advisers to Hello!Project. Time flies. ﾉﾉl∂Д∂'ﾙ＜Belly Koubou!!!)

source: Berryz Koubou x C-ute Crosstalk Book - Rival -